– Marco Carvalho
The number of those who flee wars, persecution and conflicts has never been so high. By the end of 2018, according to the United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees (UNHCR), there were over 70 million refugees, displaced persons and asylum seekers worldwide. In order to offer a better livelihood to these populations, it is necessary, Sivanka Dhanapala argues, to put an end to the vast array of problems that have led to such considerable human flows. The representative of the United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees in the People’s Republic of China was recently in Macau for the International Refugee Day celebrations. Mr Dhanapala told O Clarim that the organization intends to discuss with the Macau Government ways to optimize the mechanisms for welcoming refugees that are already in place in the Special Administrative Region.
The refugees’ question is one of the most pressing issues of our time. The world often tends to look at this question through the lens of the Western nations. In this documentary – Kakuma, My City – we are offered a different vision, a vision of hope. More than a refugee camp, Kakuma is a city on its own and a city that works. Is it important to convey this kind of narrative, a narrative of hope instead of a narrative of death?
Absolutely. I think one of the aspects that really comes out in this movie is the tremendous resources that you have amongst this population, within the refugee camp. As I said during my intervention, they should not be looked upon as victims but, really, very much as a part of the solution. When refugees arrive in a new country, they arrive fleeing violence and persecution. This is not something that they wanted. This is a situation that they have been placed in. Very often, given the opportunity, they’re able to contribute, even in economic terms. When they work, they can contribute towards the economy in a very, very positive way and contradict the perception that they are there as dependents of the system, of the host country, of the host community. There has been a number of studies made that in and around Syria – in refugee hosting countries like Jordan, Lebanon, Turkey and also in Germany recently – and these studies show, both in a quantitative and a qualitative manner, that there has been an economic contribution made by the refugees. I think, certainly, there is that positive element that should be not overlooked. You were talking about hope; I think that most refugees would like to go home. They are hopeful that they can go home. Sometimes that’s not possible and that’s when we have to look for alternative solutions that they can opt for. Sometimes that means resettlement in a third country. Sometimes it means alternative legal pathways: looking for scholarship opportunities, employment opportunities. Sadly, sometimes, it means being in this very temporary situation that you saw in Kakuma, My City for a very long time. Kakuma is not a solution. That is an ad interim arrangement until such time as people can either go home or be resettled. The sad reality is that … many people have been born in a camp like that, they live their entire lives in a camp like because the solution is not forthcoming. The appeal that our High Commissioner has made to member States, to State leaders – as our former High Commissioner, Mr Guterres, who is now UN Secretary General has also said – is that we need to address the root causes of conflict. How do we ensure that wars that had been going on in a very protracted way, how can we ensure that they reach an end? A peaceful end, so that people can go home and rebuild their countries. That’s the kind of utopian hope that we want. We want that people are able to one day go home.
Conflicts, nevertheless, are always arising. If we look back to what was happening three years ago, the most pressing issue was Syria. The Mediterranean is still one of the hotspots of the refugee crisis, but now we also have Venezuela and, potentially, some other situations may arise in the future. Is Venezuela the problem that worries UNHCR the most nowadays?
Well, it’s one of the issues. We have a number of situations around the world. The reason I mentioned Venezuela earlier is that just last week they reached the four millions number in terms of refugees who have fled in and around Venezuela. That is as a huge number in a very, very short time. That’s a very desperate situation. Nevertheless, you’re very right. There’s a multiplicity of conflicts around the world. There are old conflicts that have not ended and new conflicts that are emerging. You know, there’s a lot of negative rhetoric about refugees and migration in the world today, among governments. I think there’s a lot of political opportunism also, coming from people who are trying to sow seeds of division. What we need is much more solidarity among nations and states to really look at resolving some of these long standing conflicts and also seeking to prevent conflict when tensions are high. There has to be political will among governments to try and achieve those goals. We have the United Nations Security Council, which decides on issues of peace and security. Our High Commissioner spoke at the Security Council as recently as April. One would think, “What does refugees have to do with peace and security,” but as you can imagine there is a very direct consequence. When there’s a disruption in peace and security there’s an outflow of population, there’s movement of populations. Our High Commissioner regularly briefs the Security Council on the situation of refugees around the world. In April, as I recall, he said: “I have been working for refugees for over 13 years and I’ve seen tremendous solidarity. Governments and people coming together on this issue, but never before have I seen so much toxicity as today when it comes to refugees, to the situation of these populations who are forced to flee their homes because of violence and persecution. Let’s come around, let’s unite and galvanize support in trying to address the situation.”
Is the international community doing all it should do to address the refugee’s issue? Most of the refugees that we know nowadays, they were created by conflict, but in the future we might have to answer to other issues, like climate change for instance. We are already starting to witness people that are forced to flee their villages because of droughts or the rise of the sea level. Will we face an even bigger problem in the future?
Well, absolutely. The United Nations Secretary-General was recently on the cover of the Time Magazine and, of course, it is all about climate change. When he was High Commissioner for Refugees he was also raising the very important question of displacement that is caused by climate change. Now, that does not fall strictly within the definition of a refugee, because a refugee flees his country because there is a well-founded fear of persecution or because of generalized violence and conflict. Nevertheless, if you think about it a lot of displacements might happen in the future because of climate change, because natural disasters that might happen. There’s a slow onset on the rising sea levels in some of the South Pacific islands or in the Maldives. So, those are issues that need to be looked at. There’s a conversation that has begun. That’s not, nevertheless, the only issue with climate change. As very important resources become more scarce – may be because of drought, for example – we may witness the increment of tensions between communities for the possession of those scarce resources and that can lead to conflict. If there’s a conflict we will certainly see refugees and displacement. It’s very important that we see the interlinkage between some of these issues and be able to address them in a coherent way. Is the international community doing enough? I think that what we have to do is drill down to what ‘international community’ actually means, because it’s a very nebulous concept. The international community it comprised of member states, right? I think there has to be a political will for them to do something. Of course, if there’s a groundswell of support from the people of those countries, they can also persuade their governments to be more active.
Macau has been, in several instances, in the receiving end of refugee’s flows. Firstly, after the Second World War. Then, following the Vietnam war. Nevertheless, we don’t see this happening anymore. Macau has already in place legislation so that it can receive refugees, but it hasn’t yet offered the status of refugee to any asylum seeker. Does this kind of passive performance make things difficult both for refugees and the UNHCR?
Macau is a signatory of the 1951 Convention, as you pointed out. They had a past tradition of generosity towards refugees. We currently have our partners here, Caritas, who have been extremely active, as well, as a partner. We have an on-going dialogue with the local Government, the SAR Government. There are, of course, a few systems in place, but we will continue our discussion with the Government on how those systems can work in an optimum way.
We see the same kind of behavior being shared by the two biggest economic powerhouses of our time. The United States and China are not very active as receiving nations. You were saying before that maybe the refugee question should be addressed more often in the Security Council. Would it be a solution for this problem?
The United States has been one of the biggest supporters of refugees for a very, very long time. China, too, has been very generous and supportive towards refugees, but what we need now is more international action, international responsibility sharing. That is very much the spirit which was within the global compact on refugees that was signed in New York, in December last year. That compact basically talked about four key principles, where there was agreement. One, is that the international community needs to come together more effectively to ease the burden on countries that are hosting refugees. Contrary to what you sometimes see in the media, 80 to 85 percent of the world’s refugees are actually in the developing world, not in the developed world. These hosting nations need assistance in easing that pressure, because they feel not only do they have their own challenges, but then these additional challenges. We need to do more to empower refugees. You saw this sort of celebration of the human spirit in the film. With education, with access to employment, refugees can do a lot. We can reduce any dependency syndrome and restore the dignity to these persons. But we need to also to work on countries opening up a little bit more to refugees for resettlement to a third country, but we understand the political realities. We’re not going to suddenly see countries opening their doors and having tens of thousands of people coming in, but what we can maybe try to do is to look for innovative alternatives: alternative legal pathways where people can, maybe, have access to more scholarship opportunities, more employment opportunities and so on. Finally, I think a very important aspect is what can we do more to resolve conflict, to prevent conflict. When we resolve the conflict, how can we help a country rebuild itself, so that refugees can go home?
I have one last question. You were mentioning alternative solutions. In January, two Swiss economists proposed here in Macau that asylum seekers should pay an entrance fee in the destination countries, having in mind that a great number of those that try to reach Europe pay thousands of dollars to middlemen and to criminal networks. Do you think it could be a solution?
I haven’t heard of that proposal, but what I can say is that, certainly, the people traffickers, the smugglers are an unfortunate scourge that we have to deal with. To me, those are persons who, in a very opportunistic way, take advantage of people who are in a miserable and vulnerable situation. Those who are fleeing conflict, who are fleeing for their lives, having to pay all their life savings to an individual simply to put them on a dangerous boat that might sink in the Mediterranean, for example, is something very, very unfortunate. I hope that law enforcement can try and address some of these situations. When I talk about alternative legal pathways, I’m thinking more in terms of… You know, if there is a skilled individual in a camp like Kakuma or in another locations, are there ways in which we can either find them employment somewhere and then legally have them go and contribute, in an effective way or, if there’s a young person – and you saw a lot of young people in the movie – who is talented and who has the energy, can he be offered any sort of scholarship? I actually have met an individual, who was not in this camp but in other camp very near called Dadaab, who came from South Sudan when he was 5 years old. Back then, he was still a Sudanese citizen. This young man, he did very well in the camp school. He got a scholarship to go to Nairobi, which is something very unusual. Most of them never go outside the camp. Then he got another scholarship: he did so well at high school, he went to Yale University. From Yale University, he got another scholarship and he came to China, where I met him in Beijing he was at Tsinghua University, which is one of the best universities in Beijing. His only desire, in terms of his aspirations, is to go back to his now new country, South Sudan, and help rebuild that country and bring about economic prosperity to his people. A lot of these people aren’t simply looking to go to a country, work there and just contribute towards their own well-being and happiness. They do want to contribute to their country of origin. So, I think we need to try and help where we can and provide those opportunities.
Follow
