– Marco Carvalho
Thailand’s small Catholic community is nowadays perfectly integrated, but it has not always been so. Pathorn de Sequeira’s great uncle was forced to renounce his Catholic faith and to convert to Buddhism, a victim of a dark period in which Christians were persecuted and martyred. His Catholic faith did not prevent Sequeira – one of Thailand’s most distinguished Portuguese descendants – from becoming a close friend and musical partner of the late king Bhumibol Adulyadej. A renowned musician and lecturer, Pathorn de Sequeira jammed with the beloved monarch for more than 30 years.
What does it mean to be a Catholic in a country like Thailand?
My family has been in this country since 1890. My great-grandfather came here from Macau and, even before that, in the Catholic community, in Thailand, our history goes all the way back to ancient times. Even before the Paris Mission came to Thailand, of which we celebrated recently the 350th anniversary, there was already a very significant Catholic presence in Thailand. There were already Dominican friars. The Dominicans, the Augustinians were already in Thailand and so were the Jesuits. In fact, the presence of a Jesuit priest was recorded in Thailand in 1609. He was the one that help establish the so-called Portuguese camp, the “bando” in Ayutthaya the old capital. When the French arrived, 350 years ago, Christianity and Catholic communities were already well established. We had a very strong community in Ayutthaya. Catholicism is something that goes all the way back a very long time. In Thailand, a country which is predominantly Buddhist, things seem to be peaceful, but the Catholics are a small minority and…
Is it hard to profess the Catholic faith in a place with such a Buddhist majority? In Thailand, people live their devotion with a great zeal. They are proudly Buddhist. How does this influence someone with a different faith?
In the past, especially around World War II, times were quite difficult for Thailand’s Catholic community. There were persecutions and we even have a group of martyrs in Northern Thailand. Saint John Paul II blessed them thirty years ago. This sort of problem was once a reality, even in my family. One of my great uncles, the little brother of my grandmother, who was also from a Catholic Portuguese family, was forced to convert at that time. He had to be ordained a monk so that he could prove he became a Buddhist. After the War, when things started to relax a bit, he converted back to Catholicism.
Nowadays, things are different…
Yes. Nowadays, there is no pressure at all.
Did you accompany the visit of Pope Francis in November? Did you take part in any of the initiatives?
Well, not officially. They planned this visit for months. They had music programs, they had everything. I did help them with a theme, a musical theme that they performed.
What’s the relevance of the Catholic Church in Thailand nowadays? Was that relevance reinforced by the Pope’s visit?
Sure. Well, the Church has a strong mark, especially in education. The Church has been sending in teachers, sending in priests that teach our children. This has been going on for way more than 350 years.
You are a very well known musician in Thailand and you had the privilege of playing for many, many years with the late King Bhumibol, who was a very accomplished musician. How do you feel about this experience? Was it a privilege to be the musical partner of a monarch?
Definitely. I had served him for 30 years. That is a very long time. My father served him for even longer. My father passed away two years ago, but he had been a friend of the late king throughout his life. Their friendship lasted for more than 70 years.
You started playing with King Bhumibol when you were very young…
I was around 13, yes.
What did you learn from King Bhumibol? How did he help you to improve yourself as a musician?
Well, he is pretty much my model. When I was young, I would accompany my dad to the Palace and I would listen to them embark on “jam sessions.” The king liked jazz music. I saw him playing the saxophone and I remember I used to come home and tell my father that I wanted to be just like him. I wanted to play that really cool thing. I found out, later on, that instrument was called the saxophone, the alto saxophone. I began to play the alto saxophone because of him, because of his example. When I started to play better and better, my father invited me to become a member of the band.
Nowadays, you are a very well known jazz musician, both in Thailand and abroad. But you are also an accomplished educator. You are not only a performer, but also an investigator. You devoted most of your career to jazz. When we think about the traditional sounds of Thailand, they are not really comparable. How do they influence your works?
Sure. Well, I also play a Thai traditional wind instrument called “pi nai,” which looks pretty much like an oboe, but it doesn’t sound like an oboe. It is quite different actually; it’s an instrument with a quadruple reed. It uses four reeds. Not two, not one, but four. These kinds of instruments are being integrated into jazz.
Is it possible to make that kind of fusion? Is it possible to harmonize traditional instruments with something so global as jazz?
Well, sure. Once you take up the instrument and you master it, you get to do what you want and, therefore, it becomes detached from its traditional origin itself. We can still play the traditional way, but at the same time we can do whatever we want. It is pretty much that.
You are not, of course, playing with a monarch anymore, but besides teaching at the University, what else do you do? What musical projects are you currently involved with?
Well, I still perform around the world, especially in Europe. Before this public health crisis, I still had a few shows scheduled. This year, for instance, I will take part in a few jazz festivals. The first one will take place in Kazakhstan and there will be another in Denmark, later in the year. I still do live performances every year and once in a while I still go to New Orleans to meditate. No…
Well, it is a sort of meditation…
Yes. I pretty much do that once in a while, when I get tired of things. I will go to New Orleans and just play. (Photo credit: Marco Carvalho)
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