– Marco Carvalho
Patience, responsibility and sense of mission. A year after Beijing and the Holy See signed an agreement to normalize relations, the progress is not yet very evident, but for Emilio Zanetti a little dialogue is better than no dialogue at all. The Italian Jesuit was in Macau last weekend to introduce a new documentary about Matteo Ricci produced by Jiangsu’s public broadcasting corporation. CCTV will broadcast the four-part documentary this month.
You were in Macau to talk about a new documentary about Matteo Ricci. Was this documentary, which was filmed in several places, long overdue? If I am not wrong, this is the first time that we have a Chinese perspective on the legacy of Matteo Ricci…
This documentary should have been produced at least 16 years ago. The father of this documentary died two years ago. His name was Father Jerry Martinson. He was a Californian Jesuit who became a TV star in Asia for teaching English on TV in Taiwan and China too. He was a very well known personality. He has this idea of starting a series of documentaries about Jesuits who worked in China and that became famous. One of them was Matteo Ricci.
After scouting for TV producers in China, they made an agreement with Jiangsu Broadcasting Corporation, the television of Nanjing, and they agreed to produce a documentary. In Jerry’s perspective, that documentary should have been about Matteo Ricci. We were in 2003 and at that time, they told him: “Father, Matteo Ricci is a little sensitive. He is a foreigner and he was also a priest. But, if we are smart, we can produce a documentary about his Chinese friend…”
Paul Xu Guangqi…
Exactly. The documentary became Matteo’s Ricci documentary under the guise of Paul Xu Guangqi. This was produced in 2003. It came out in 2005. Jerry raised the money and there were a lot of people involved in this production. His goal was to broadcast it on CCTV, the state broadcaster of China. This was always our goal.
They were very happy; they made a great production about Xu Guangqi and, after that, father Jerry asked if they could continue with some other documentaries. So, the second name that came out was Adam Schall von Bell. Adam Schall von Bell was a German Jesuit who was the tutor of the Emperor. He reached the highest position in the Imperial Court amongst all the Jesuits. This came out in 2009.
Then, we had the production of our most successful documentary yet. It was about an artist born in Milan, a Jesuit brother – he was not a father, he was a brother – called Giuseppe Castiglione. We produced this. I joined the production in 2013 and it was broadcasted in 2015. When the program was broadcasted, four years ago, it drew an overwhelming attention in China.
Castiglione is a very important artist for Chinese people. He made several portraits of the Emperor, he drew his horses, the mistresses of the Imperial Court. He is very famous. He is not so very well known in Italy and in Europe, but he is very famous in China. More than half a billion people saw this documentary.
What happened then? One day I was walking in Taipei, with my cell phone and I had a call from the Vatican. It was Father Federico Lombardi and he said: “There is a guy that wants to talk with you”. This guy was Pope Francis himself. I had never heard his voice on the phone, so I was surprised.
He told me: “Can you come? We have to talk.” Francis is very interested in China, as you know.
I told him: “Holy Father, I cannot go right now.” I was involved in the production of Silence, the movie directed by Martin Scorsese. The movie was produced in Taiwan in 2015.
I went to Rome in September and we met there. At the time, I already knew that the Chinese television wanted to do a documentary about Matteo Ricci himself, not others but himself. I went to see Pope Francis with a pool of donors, because if you bring people with money, they will pay for the documentary and I was the fundraiser of this project.
In September 11, 2015 this project started with the blessing of Paul Francis, but we didn’t started this documentary for three years. All the TV stations in China were busy for the big meeting of the Communist Party in 2016 and then, in 2017 they had another big Assembly and they had to produce many documentaries about their history. We patiently waited for three years and then, last year, they called us and they said: “OK, now we can sign the contract and start the project.”
They started filming in China for three months and then, in November, last year, we came to Macau and we went to Italy, we went to Portugal – we shot in Lisbon – and then we went to India. We recently ended the production and the post-production in Nanjing. We are very happy with the production. The money was well spent and, now, hopefully it will be broadcasted this month on CCTV.
This is the kind of achievement that, at first stance, we wouldn’t imagine to be possible. How hard is it, for the Catholic Church, to produce something on China? Or China is not as closed as we often think it is?
Yes. I think China is not as closed as we think it is. You have to play honestly, of course. You have to show what you are doing and you have to do the job you are requested to do. The task we fulfil in China is education for foreigners in Beijing. We have a University Center and we work in the media in partnership with Jiangsu TV.
When Jerry Martinson met the head, the big head of Jiangsu TV and they discussed this documentary about Paul Xu Guangqi, Jerry said at the end: “We are doing this and we probably will touch many religious things or many sensitive things. What will the Government say about this?”
Back then the head of Jiangsu Broadcasting Corporation was a lady and she looked Jerry in the eyes and she said: “I am the Government.” That means you have to work from the beginning with the producers, who are the Government – and the Government cares about people in China – and they know how to communicate the message to the audience, because we are always foreigners in some way. I mean, a script made by a native Chinese is deep; it’s very different from a script made by a foreigner. That’s a big advantage.
The Chinese screenwriters are so curious and so hard working. They want to know all the details and really, I was amazed. I only joined the production for the third documentary, about Castiglione, but everything had to be perfect.
They wanted to know everything about the culture of the time in Milan and the Jesuits, who are the Jesuits, why there are brothers and fathers, the Virgin Mary, the Holy Trinity. How can three guys be one entity? They are so curious and so precise. We gain a lot working with these kind of professionals and we are sure that, at the end, it will be broadcasted.
For a production of two hours, there will be things that are cropped at the end. Like in every other country of the world, there is a kind of censorship, but the main theme, the main message of the project will come out in a very beautiful way, made by people that share this culture, this Chinese beautiful culture, for Chinese audiences and this is the most important for us. They will find their own way of communicating something that maybe we cannot understand. At least, I don’t understand it globally. This is the most important thing.
This is, by all means, a big production. As you were saying, this documentary was shot in several locations. There was that kind of preoccupation to be faithful to the places where Matteo Ricci has developed his vocation…
Yes, yes. To be in location is very important. When you are in Lisbon and you see the river or you are in Macerata, where Matteo Ricci was born and you eat the food that Italian people eat, the crew has the possibility to go deep inside that kind of culture. To be in location is important and that way makes making this kind of documentaries expensive. And then, the fact that this documentary was also produced at the same time that this agreement between Rome and Beijing…
I can assure you that Pope Francis was already working very hard at the time, 2015, to find ways to make this possible. It was very exciting for us to be in this kind of environment, historical and geographical. The drama parts are not re-enacted by professional actors because they didn’t have to speak.
In the second movie, the documentary on Adam Schall Von Bell, they used dialogue, but when the documentary was broadcasted, all the dialogues had been cut off. I think this way is better, because the audience can focus on the message more than on dialogues or in drama parts.
Apart from the money question, what would you say was the biggest challenge to put this documentary on its feet?
Actually, the money question to me is very important. To be a fundraiser is very interesting. Money seems to be a secondary thing, but in reality it shows how people are interested in something that they cannot do by themselves. There were very simple people that gave something like 10 US dollars. And there were big people who gave a lot. But, no one individually could make this project. This was an opportunity to come together and raise this money.
We raised money also in Taiwan, for instance, where we saw that, despite political differences, the Church had the power to unite people beyond borders. That was an important message. Most of the money, actually, apart from Italy, came from Taiwan. We told the donors: “This money will go to the Chinese TV.” One of them told us: “OK. It will be a good investment if all the Chinese become Catholic.” It’s interesting to see how people want to contribute, want to be part of something that they find, in a certain way, attractive.
To convert all the Chinese it might be a little bit difficult, but do you think that a documentary like this can help to achieve any conversions in China?
Of course. Our mission is not to proselytize. Our mission, like Matteo Ricci or Jerry Martinson, is to continue or to start a dialogue. This is the most important thing. All of us, we have values and beliefs, but to share this, to sit down and watch a documentary together and see what it can teach us….
It’s all about friendship. Friendship was the book that Matteo Ricci brought to China. We can discover so much about each other just sharing things. About this aspect of how can people choose their own faith or their own beliefs, this is up to God. It is not our choice. But, just to see how the crew and all the people of the Government that were involved in this project were interested in what we have to say, that was, for me, already a great achievement.
The Society of Jesus has always been well considered in China and we have now a Jesuit Pope. Did these circumstances help China and the Holy See to reach out to each other? Or these circumstances didn’t make any kind of difference?
Yes, sure. I cannot go into details, but it is very important that we have Francis in that position, almost begging China to sign an agreement. He did this in an intelligent way.
When I told Francis about the three documentaries that we had already done and the project about Matteo Ricci, he was so enthusiastic. At the end of our conversation, he took the DVDs and the outline of the new project and he went to his room to study the content. He understood that they were made by Chinese people for a Chinese audience and he has shown a great interest in understanding all this.
To have a very good cooperation between the Vatican and the Chinese Government, it’s something very positive for us and we hope we can give our contribution.
This principle of agreement was signed more than one year ago. Is it easier for a Jesuit priest like you to be a minister of God in China nowadays? Did something actually change?
Well, in my case, I know exactly what is my role in China. I signed an agreement to which I am personally accountable and I know what to do. We have to see this in the long term. We will face difficulties, maybe, but I think that both parties, the Church and the Government, they are honest and they want the best for the people, both the Catholic people and the Chinese people.
We have to play by the rules and be patient. In my opinion, this is a great step. It is a big step and after 69 years of no dialogue, it takes courage and willingness to give this a go. Last year, September 22nd, was a great day for the Church and it will bring many firsts. I am quite sure.
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