– Miguel Augusto
The brief passage of Msgr Eduardo Chávez for the first time in Macau touched the faithful during his last Sunday talk, leaving everyone with the desire for a new and longer visit. O CLARIM went to the Chapel of St Nuno in the Sé Cathedral church for a dialogue with Msgr Chavez.
Before being appointed postulator of the cause for canonization of St Juan Diego, had you already been studying the apparitions of Our Lady of Guadalupe, or was this “call” the great impulse?
The Cardinal gave me this honor to be a postulator. I know St Juan Diego and Our Lady of Guadalupe because of my studies many years before. It’s something fascinating. You cannot stop; you want to know more and more. But being postulator for St Juan Diego and work with St John Paul II, and also the miracle with the doctors really was a great honor but also a great responsibility. Thanks to the Holy See, because the Holy See always ask documents, papers, all resources…
It was very important for me to be postulator, continuing to deepen in this incredible event and also transmitting it to everybody in the world.
What were your feelings when you received the invitation of Cardinal Norberto Rivera and when you were present at the canonization of Juan Diego by Pope John Paul II in the Basilica of Our Lady of Guadalupe, in Mexico City, on July 31, 2002?
[Smiles]. In the first moment was – this was too big. But I understand now; it’s not about me, it’s Our Lady of Guadalupe. We only are instruments; this is her work, and the fountain of all this is Jesus Christ. Because Jesus Christ is always the fountain, He’s the center; He’s the focus in Our Lady of Guadalupe, and she guides us to Jesus Christ. This is one point. The second point, regarding St John Paul II, the canonization … I was in that meeting in Rome with many monsignors, doctors, many persons. They prepared and organized everything. When the Holy Father came in a wheelchair, he was very sick. I saw it perfectly. But I never expected to hear the conclusion of all these organizers. Some doctor stood up and said: “Holy Father, don’t go to Mexico.” It was terrible to hear that. Not only one doctor, another doctor: “Don’t go to Mexico.” Many other monsignors: “Don’t go to Mexico.” Then the Holy Father said: “Are you finished? I will go to Mexico. I need to go to Mexico because in that image, everything starts. I need to go to Mexico because I need to kiss the image of Our Lady of Guadalupe.” I remember that moment. I saw and heard how Holy Father said: “This man is a saint, this man is a bridge between God, between Heaven and Earth. This man is a model of sanctity for everybody in the world. This man gave us the truth of God through Our Lady of Guadalupe.” For me, that moment was incredible.
Much has been said about the Indian Juan Diego and even his social position. Who was this Indian messenger of Our Lady, who became a saint, and why did it take so many years for him to be canonized?
Good question: why Juan Diego was canonized a long time after the events. But after Juan Diego died, he went to Heaven. It was necessary for the Holy Father to confirm his through the canonization. I think that for God, it’s the right time.
The text Nican Mopohua that narrates the apparitions of Our Lady of Guadalupe, written by the Indian Antonio Valeriano, results from a direct dialogue with the visionary Juan Diego?
Very good question, because there are mistakes. Everybody knows what happened, thanks to Juan Diego. At first, it was transmitted by oral tradition. But for the natives, as well as for Europeans, the image is a letter of love. Why? Because is Our Lady, she is the Immaculate Conception. She is the woman in the Book of Revelation – with the sun and the moon … And the third point is very meaningful: the time – earthquakes, eclipses, comet… Afterwards, in 1545-1546, Antonio Valeriano put in a manuscript everything that Juan Diego had talked about the oral tradition. This manuscript is something incredible.
It has been said that Our Lady would have called herself “Our Lady of Tequatlasupe” which means in Nahuatl “the one who treads the head of the serpent,” and that the Spanish would have understood “Guadalupe,” given the existing Spanish devotion to the Virgin of Guadalupe in Cáceres (Spain). What was the real name that Our Lady gave herself in this apparition in Mexico and its meaning?
Thank you for that question, because this is a terrible mistake. When I was postulator, the Holy See always asked me for documents. Where? Who mentioned this? Because we understood it always as Guadalupe. Some people said, well Spanish people in Spain, in Extremadura, there is a monastery with that name Guadalupe. Some conquerors at that time from that place, certainly – this is supposed – gave the name. We needed to go to the archives. And all the documents, also the Nican Mopohua, mention Guadalupe. She told not Juan Diego but the uncle (Juan Bernardino) that her name was: “Santa Maria de Guadalupe.”
The miraculous icon of Our Lady of Guadalupe in Juan Diego’s tilma contains a “codex,” similar to the Nahuatl codices, communicating with Aztec indigenous iconography. What led the Indians to abandon their “diabolical mythology” and human holocausts and convert to Christianity in droves? What does the icon communicate?
It’s a very deep point; there are many angles. One is this: at that time, after the conquest, the natives were more depressed because they thought all their idols died. And there was a plague, which killed half of them. There’s a manuscript, were they said: “Let us die because our gods died, and we need to die also…” The first Spanish missionaries – wonderful people – tried to baptize, tried to save the natives, but for them it was a titanic mission because of only few missionaries in that year, 1531. Certainly, some natives converted like Juan Diego and his family, but the majority no.
In 1530, there occurred three earthquakes. For the natives, the fourth earthquake would finish the world. Afterwards, in 1531, the comet Halley crossed the universe. And worse, in 1531 the eclipse. If God did not intervene precisely at this moment, we would lose this land.
Several scientific teams over the years have been analyzing the tilma and the miraculous “painting.” The studies of Dr Philip Callahan of NASA’s scientific team, and Professor Jody B. Smith of Pensacolla College, as well as Dr Aste Tonsmann who discovered the figures in the iris of Our Lady, have been prominent. Could you tell us a little about the scientific discoveries that dazzle even the unbelievers and remain unanswered?
This is another question very important because there are a lot of mistakes. First, the book of Callahan, the first half of the book is terrible, it’s not true. They are from NASA; you can read, the first part of the book has plenty of lies, plenty of confusion. The second part of the book is okay, I agree with them. In 1929, for the first time, Carlos Salinas – and another person – they saw an image in the eyes of Our Lady of Guadalupe. In 1951, one ophthalmologist – Dr Javier Torroella – was the first ophthalmologist to analyze the eyes with instruments. And they are exactly human eyes. Not alive in the moment, but like a photo. And there was a human reflection in both eyes – this is so important. Afterwards came Aste Tonsmannis using the computer, and he examined both eyes and saw thirteen persons. A family, the bishop, someone translating to the bishop, Juan Diego, the tilma, one servant, one indigenous… The eyes capture that moment. There are much more.
Guadalupe’s message is certainly a timeless message to the world. Could you give us your feelings about the phenomenon of the apparitions of the Blessed Mother, starting with Our Lady of Guadalupe in 1513 to our days? Jesus Christ is the unique revelation. In Our Lady of Guadalupe, we hear words that we need to hear: “Don not be afraid, I am here, I am your Mother.” And also she said: “I have the honor and joy to be your Mother. I protect you.” Because these words remain in our hearts and change our life. Our Lady of Guadalupe its not only Mary, it is Jesus Christ in her womb. And that changes everything; because it’s an encounter with God, through Our Lady of Guadalupe.
Being a Marian priest, how was your devotion to Our Lady born and what last message would you like to leave us?
The first question is: I don’t know when. I think it was always there. Every moment I deepen this knowledge of Our Lady of Guadalupe. And I say to Our Lady: Why me? Why do you love me so much? I don’t know. It’s impossible to express it, and it’s not about my English. It’s something incredible. She introduced me to the seminary. She is always in my mind, in my heart. And she guides us; she is merciful.
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